An interesting comment on car enthusiast culture

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 12/16/2018 at 15:03 • Filed to: None

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I commented on Radwood earlier today in a post, and gave what I thought were some pretty gentle criticisms of the LA event. One of the “insiders” took this a little personally. Since we can’t share comments anymore, here is a representation of our exchange. I think this crosses into the general automotive interest because of this commenter’s claim of affiliation with Radwood :

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ImmoralMinority !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!



Don’t see any issue with the placement of the cars and neither did any of the media or photographers who covered the event. 99.5% of attendees didn’t have a problem either, with over 1,000 #radwoodla tags and several thousand new #radwood tags on instagram since the event. As a RADwood event insider and contributor, I can assure you that everyone’s been raving about the eclectic mix of cars next one another AND the killer backdrops/environment (which includes the people in period dress). From the looks of your photos, I think it’s the photographer that needs a bit work. Also, I am baffled by your comment regarding the skate tricks “near the Ferrari.” These are some of the best skateboarders in the world and they were simply skating PAST the 308 on their way to a ramp that was another 30'-35' away. Yes, this event was arranged a bit tighter than other RADw0od events so far, but this is a classic case of a “bad workman blaming his tools (the show!).” Look at all the amazing content that has been published so far. The space lended itself very well to the production of amazing content for both still and video formats.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Vehicles & Methylxanthine !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!



Definitely bringing your comment out of the greys so people can see what “Radwood insiders” do when confronted with even the mildest criticism of one of their events. You apparently made this account to hide behind.You can be thin-skinned all you want. Frankly, this is why I have stopped participating in the Facebook groups - the Radwood culture seems to be turning towards some of the more negative aspects of car enthusiast culture. Instead of reading this and taking it as constructive criticism, or even just shrugging your shoulders and choosing to disagree, you want to rant at me that I am wrong and how dare I disagree with what others have published. I have no idea why you would want to come here and take cheap shots at me and the photos (which I acknowledged at the outset I was not happy with). I get it - you guys are not open to any criticism at all.
What sort of image are you trying to project of your event? That you attack anyone who does not rave wildly about it? That you are closed-minded Rad-bros? Mission accomplished!

It is fine if others felt differently from me. Those folks can enjoy the event, and if there is demand for another one at Petersen, they will all go and I won’t. If 99.5% of the people loved it, you are set - why even care about what I have to say at all?Did you see my post on SF? I raved about that event, and I still say it was one of the best shows I have been to. I had planned on attending other Radwood events in the future, although maybe I should skip them because it sounds like you don’t want me there. It’s ok. After a great first experience with SF, I am having less fun with the culture that seems to be growing up around an era of cars I enjoy.I personally thought the Petersen was a bad venue for a car show, particularly one of this size. Some of my friends who were there agreed with me. Others did not. I thought the cars were too close together, spectator parking was too difficult, and there were just too many cars and people in too small of a space. I would not have wanted to show my car because I would have been worried about the lack of space. You don’t have to agree, but those are fair and objective criticisms, not personal attacks on you or the effort put into organizing your event.You make yourself look bad by getting nasty with me. Good luck with Radwood. I am happy for your success so far, and hope that it continues.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! his is the kind of stuff that makes me stay away from a lot of car events. What is it about cars that so many enthusiasts carry this under the surface hostility that keeps a bro-culture so close to the car world? Many of you are not like this, and I have met many people who are not like this.

It is really disappointing. The SF Radwood event was so pleasant and chill, full of friendly people. But I am starting to be put off of the whole Radwood experience. As its popularity has grown, the territorial bro-ness seems to be growing as well.

Or who knows. Maybe it is just me and I should not interact with others.  

Maxima Speed > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:20

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+1. I hate car shows in general.

Decay buys too many beaters > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:24

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I see more and more people in internet culture totally unable to take constructive criticism every year. These type of responses are increasingly common if a post/event/opinion , is met with anything other than universal public acceptance and approval.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:24

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what no swearing and telling you to kill yourself?

does that guy even know how to interweb?

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:26

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The best car culture is Cars n’ Coffee, they seem to be pretty open to lots of cars. Auto-X &/or track day groups are good too. The groups (not just FB groups) geared to one era &/or one type of car take on your “bro-culture”. That is excluding car spotting groups, those are always good. Saying that I did one simple trick to avoid terrible facebook groups, I deactivated my account.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:29

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Missing from this is your original comment. He sounds defensive but what exactly did you post?

TheJWT > Maxima Speed 12/16/2018 at 15:29

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I hate car culture in general

vicali > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:45

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Haha, there you go being difficult again.. why can’t you just #ashtag @t your IG snaps like the rest of them..

Wait until you register next year! That will be two events looking out for you- time for a pseudo name.. 

ps- using the number of #photos to verify how great an event is apparently the new norm.

DutchieDC2R > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:50

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The guy’s defending an event he’s a part of (or so he claims). I see absolutely nowhere where he’s taking anything personally.

How is he exactly getting nasty with you? By commenting on your not-so-great photo skills?

On top of everything, you don’t even know what role he fulfills within Radwood or if this ‘insider’ label has any credibility at all.

How are you feeling attacked by the guy? He's defending his event, it seems like you're the one that can't take criticism.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Maxima Speed 12/16/2018 at 15:52

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Car shows meant for a certain type of car suck.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 15:55

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Car culture is toxic.

Sovande > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:01

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I don’t go to these kinds of events because people dressing in “period dress” and being “rad” is “dumb as fuck.” I can’t comment on the prevailing bro-ness since I don’t think I know what that means.

Not sure what you were expecting as a response to your criticism though? If you didn’t want a response, why make the criticism in the first place? Honestly, his response seemed pretty even t empered to me. 

nermal > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:04

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The cars were packed together a bit snug from the pics you took.

If I were a cantankerous old fart with a Ferrari that I took to car shows, I would not want any goddam kids near it with their goddam skateboards, regard less of how “professional” they are.

I’m disappointed with the lack of immature insults coming from either side . Because other photographers were able to frame the cars properly, you are clearly a n00b and should get rekt, although this was not explicitly stated . Even blind people that ate too many paint chips as a child know that a   parking garage is not a “killer backdrop / environment ”. We are also left without knowing how promiscuous either party’s mum is.

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:09

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“We appreciate your input, and will take your thoughts into consideration as we plan our next event. We appreciate you being apart of [whateverthefuck] and look forward to seeing you next year.”

That’s how you respond to criticism when running anything, even if you don’t agree with the criticism. Unfortunately, everyone feels the need need to wave their dick around.

VincentMalamute-Kim > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:11

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I thought your “criticism” was so mild that it barely qualifies. So mild he shouldn’t have bothered to respond. Yeah, his hackles were a bit up but really, his response was pretty mild too. He took it a bit personally, but I ge t the sense you are too by reposting the interaction and the generalizations about “all car shows”, “those people”, “never going to Radwood again”, etc.

Don’t take this as criticism. Just my observation on the interaction. I tend towards avoidance and withdraw when I start feeling slighted. (Not that I’m implying any deficiencies in your social abilities!) Take a few deep breaths. Forget this guy.  Go to Radwood LA if you feel like next time.

slipperysallylikespenguins > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:25

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This is why avoid any automotive events or meets specifically targeted at young people. It might seem strange but the Pebble Beach Concours D Elegance had some of the friendliest, most knowledgeable owners I’ ve ever meet.

Vintage racing, Concours events, and Goodguys are all dominated by the elderly and get a lot of shit for being exclusive, but they are the friendliest and most passionate of the bunch. They see the value and get enjoyment from sharing their cars.  

castironerik > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:31

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This is how it is today. There is no criticism you must agree.There is no other point of view. ’ What the matter man? Don’ t like our car show ?’ Right away he starts with the personal attacks and ridicule. The guy is a typical car culture jack ass-fuck head. People like us don’ t bother going, ya we miss some great cars and people, but the negatives of the whole scene outweigh any sense of the positive.I have not attended any car event in 10 years.I fully qualify as an Oppo fo r over 40 years. My friends and I have our own events in our driveways...

Tristan > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 12/16/2018 at 16:37

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Flat brim vape bros in stanced Subarus, beat to hell Volvos on cut springs, Mustangs with the entire American Muscle catalog double-side taped on, Teslas with pretentious vanity plates, classic orphan car owners obsessed over “correct”ness ... My God it’s awful. All of it.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/16/2018 at 16:38

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You’re not wrong there. Remember I’m basically the guy who regularly deals with both extreme opposite ends of the spectrum .

That would be the fact that I’m a card carrying member of PCA (more accurately referred to as: People Consuming Alcohol,) and a regular attendee (both show and view) of Cars and Coffee.

So much as bring up a non-Porsche car at a PCA event and you can hear every eye in the room rolling. Bring a beat up, held together by duct-tape and prayers 944 that you daily drive, and they’ll probably run you out of town with pitchforks and torches (air cooled of course.)

Show up at a Cars & Coffee with an unrestored, rusting, beat up Mk 2 Supra? “DUDE. Cool! Where’d you find it?” VR6 powered sandrail you built in your garage ? “HELL YEAH!” Maserati? “NEAT!” Porsche 911 C4GTS? “Oh wow, can I get a picture?” Even our strictly curated Cars & Coffee events don’t turn away cars because they aren’t some exotic; they just have to be interesting . (So your Mustang GT350? “ Meh. If there’s room.” Your beat to hell, rusty, rattle-canned, caged E30 you autocross? Come on down!)

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Tristan 12/16/2018 at 16:40

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All of jalopnik.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 16:40

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Sounds a lot like one of the founders of the local big meet. One of my friends commented some constructive criticism about the traffic coming in(it backed up the interstate) and the parking situation(the Walmart parking lot Carolina squat shitbox crew likes tailgating and getting the paved spots), and they banned him from the group. Since then, the quantity has went way up, the quality has went waaaaaaaaay down.

AestheticsInMotion > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/16/2018 at 17:07

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The best part about events targeted at the 20 to 30-something  crowd is the starting times. Local college puts on a monthly Friday meet at—wait for it—10:00pm. Another does 11:00am on a Saturday. So nice not having to wake up at 4:00am to make the 5:00am - 8:00am show that seems to be the norm in the higher age bracket shows

AestheticsInMotion > Tristan 12/16/2018 at 17:13

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I remember at an import car meet a guy showed up in the most beat-to-shit 240 wagon I’d ever seen. TERRIBLE paint, rust everywhere, bashed in body panels... The whole 9 yards. It was hideous. The guy himself was unshaven, bleary-eyed and looked half dead. He came through a super busy street full of pedestrians looking at supras, old VW’s, Miatas, etc. Everybody made way and eyed him as he crawled his Volvo forward.

Finally, he stopped in the middle of the road. Probably a thousand people watching him, dead silent.

And the car started jumping. Multiple feet in the air. Then just the front. Just the back. It had an absolutely insane hydraulic kit. He finally stepped out of the car (with the right side jacked up 4 feet) and the cheering was unbelievable 

slipperysallylikespenguins > AestheticsInMotion 12/16/2018 at 17:20

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All the shows I listed are typically multi day events so showing up early isn’t necessary. As far as night meets, whats the point of going to a car show in the dark?

Later morning starts are nice though. I’ve avoided Exotics at Redmond Town Square for a long time because it starts too early.

Griot’s in Tacoma often host multiple car shows on summer weekends. One usually starting about 8 and then another in the afternoon.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 12/16/2018 at 17:31

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Before the Focus RS (I’ll explain farther down) incident at the local C&C, they let the Juke park up front in the main lot. It was 1st come 1st serve with a 5-7 coned off spots for special cars, they did not care what cars parked there. Never a problem, always a good mix. A nicely modded Miata beside a Diablo, then a Fiesta ST beside the Diablo, then a mint AW11. They have been running for 6 years that way.

Now to the Focus RS incident. At the 1st event of year (in may), like usual 1st come 1st serve parking (I get there early, & get a spot). Should not be a problem, always a good mix. There are about 40-45 spots in the main lot, about 20-25 Focus RS’s all came in & parking in the main lot, all in a group. Suddenly the main lot is a Ford showroom. I don’t mind a few parking beside each other. but that much no.

So it pushes all the interesting cars out, everyone complains. There was a modded 2005 Ford GT way out hiding in a corner. Everyone complains about it. Now the organizers do themes, & you have e-mail ahead to reserve a spot. Before no themes, anything flies. It worked great, no issues. I get why it changed, & it pushed some interesting car (in my eyes) away. It’s a very blue collar car scene here, not like some big American ones. So now it seems like it’s a rich guy car meet Vs. what was a blue collar car meet. All that thanks to the Focus RS. I even talked to the organizer about it & he agreed, but he has make people happy so he had to change the rules.

They love seeing the Juke there.

AestheticsInMotion > slipperysallylikespenguins 12/16/2018 at 17:32

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Fully lit parking garage. I like the vibe from that kind of event much more than the typical show, but to each their own. Seems to bring out a more auto-enthusiast crowd as apposed to just a rich guy crowd.

I keep hearing great things about Griots. One of these days! 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 17:34

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I mean they bragged about their instagram numbers, wheat kind of response do you expect? It’s just too difficult to take any kind of criticism these days no matter how mild.

slipperysallylikespenguins > AestheticsInMotion 12/16/2018 at 17:48

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A parking garage wouldn’t be bad. I was thinking more along the lines of kids hanging out in the dark in a mall parking lot doing donuts.

I’ve found that just because you are rich doesn’t mean you are not an enthusiast. Typically the rich non enthusiasts stick to the exotics shows. That is especially true in the vintage racing scene where people are able to use their means to keep historic cars alive and well used.

Griot’s is awesome. They host a cars and coffee style show every month and a few big shows in the summer. Almost every club in the PNW holds a club meet there in the summer. From MG, Volvo, Ferrari, BMW M, Saab, Mazda, and many more. It doesn’t hurt that the LeMay museum is only 5 minutes away too.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/16/2018 at 17:56

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Our local ones are all ‘upscale’ even though it’s very much blue collar territory, but we’ve never had a problem with clubs or cliques like that. Most of them have RSVP now because of space limitations, but Cars & Cappucino - which you’d think wouldn’t let rustbuckets in given it’s Porsche/M-B/Aston/RR ?

We literally had a $ 5k beat to shit track-day Boxster parked next to a $3 .4 M Aston Martin Vulcan. (Yes, it is the one you are thinking of.) Which was line of sight to a half dozen Vipers of varying vintages, modification, and colors. Plus two or three coffee trucks and at least 2 food trucks. And all the food and coffee is completely free (paid for by the sponsoring dealer .) There’s no registration fees, no bullshit, no “your car isn’t interesting enough” unless they’re out of room (marques do get preferential parking with the respective dealer lot but it’s not restricted to them ,) just ‘hey just let us know how tight we gotta pack things in. Or if you’re one of the assholes we’ve banned.’

That’s been our BIGGEST problem around here. Mustang-class assholes. There’s some club (I don’t know who or even what genre ) that apparently got all their members banned from everyone’s events because they caused at least two accidents driving like dipfucks. The ones at ECS Tuning (yes, that ECS) there’s two cops parked right there and people will still wind it up to 60MPH in the parking lot and do burnouts on their way out.

The city actually had to ban the ‘bunch of guys showing up on Sunday afternoon with nice cars’ routine at a local park because despite all the kids on the playground and the goddamn police station being NOT ONE HUNDRED FEET AWAY? Fucking everybody would do burnouts (or attempt to in the case of the ricers.) I am perfectly fine with chasing those people off.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 12/16/2018 at 18:10

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The organizers do have pay police, controversial but it's a family event. It's also smaller, so event decently close parking fills fast. The current record is I think 700 cars 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/16/2018 at 18:19

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Yeah, these aren’t paid police. Th ey’re actual radio cars. I presume because of all the reckless driving fuckwits and wanting to be right there on the scene of the accident when it happens. Cars & Cappucino only has city police at closing to direct traffic, but not always.

But jesus. I think the most you could possibly pack into Cars & Cappucino might be 100 cars. And the last one of the year at ECS, I think there were maybe 70 or 80 cars. (Crappy weather.)

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 12/16/2018 at 18:28

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Even still they are pretty chill have hard launches, as long as you slow down  it’s not a problem.

Tristan > AestheticsInMotion 12/16/2018 at 19:34

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That’s kinda cool... I still want a turbo 245 to restore one day, though. It saddens me to see so many beaten to death.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 12/16/2018 at 19:57

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Problem is the idiots around here don’t slow down and don’t launch hard, they do full on burnouts into traffic and chirp every gear they can. Yep, there’s been accidents. And tickets. And arrests . And more near misses than I can count.

Generally the shops are pretty good about telling them not to bother coming back, but there’s more every time I turn around.

OmerCarrothers333 > ImmoralMinority 12/16/2018 at 21:34

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I’ll pass on Radwood, I prefer my car shows to be presented irony-free and without people trying to dress “period correct”.

The Compromiser > DipodomysDeserti 12/16/2018 at 21:38

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I now fear attending the next whateverthefuck event. And they used to hold the best giantannualyippiekaiayemotherfuckers

shop-teacher > ImmoralMinority 12/17/2018 at 07:33

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If a Radwood event ever gets within a couple hours of me, I'll give it a shot. Being an 80's child, it particularly interests me. I never interact with anyone though, and period dress ... No thanks. In general, I'm very much over the whole, "look, cars that are parked!" Thing.